Monday, March 3, 2008

Fitna

UPDATE, March 27, 2008: Watch "Fitna" here.
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There's trouble in Dutchland and Islam...

THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) -- Protesters already have torched Dutch flags in Afghanistan ahead of a new Dutch film portraying Islam's holy book as a "fascist" text that incites violence and preaches the oppression of women and homosexuals.
A Dutch Cabinet minister postponed his trip to Somalia on Friday due to "specific threats" linked to the film, and the Dutch government has urged lawmaker Geert Wilders to scrap his film for the safety of its citizens abroad.

But Wilders said Monday he has begun negotiations with Dutch broadcasters about airing the 15-minute film, "Fitna." He said he will only allow them to show it in its entirety, and if they refuse, he plans to show it to the media and post it on the Internet.

"We have never learned to be intolerant toward people who are intolerant toward us, toward cultures that are intolerant toward us," he said in a recent Associated Press interview.

The right-wing legislator previously warned of a "tsunami" of Islam swamping the Netherlands and said Muslims should tear up half of the Quran if they want to live here.

Wilders has lived under round-the-clock security since the 2004 murder of filmmaker Theo van Gogh by an Islamic radical enraged by his short film, "Submission," a fictional study of abused Muslim women with scenes of near-naked women with Quranic texts engraved on their flesh.

The film "Fitna"—an Arabic word meaning discord—puts the centuries-old Dutch traditions of religious tolerance and freedom of speech on a collision course.

If it airs, Dutch Muslims are expected to file criminal complaints for racial or religious vilification. Prosecutors would then have to decide whether to charge Wilders with any offense.

"Our law is very clear—anybody can make a film. We have freedom of expression and you cannot restrict that," says Moroccan-born Sadik Harchaoui, chief of the Forum Institute for Multicultural Development.

"Can you offend people? The answer is yes. I'm not saying you should do it or it is desirable, but you can," he added. "But if the film is insulting and preaches hate, then the law has to take action."

The Dutch government says it cannot ban the film but is attempting to distance itself from Wilders, the leader of the Freedom Party, which holds nine of Parliament's 150 seats.

...Already the film has provoked reactions from Damascus, Tehran and other capitals of predominantly Muslim countries.

Pakistan's government ordered Internet providers to restrict access to YouTube, allegedly to prevent Pakistanis from accessing a clip of Wilders in which he makes derogatory remarks about Islam. The move inadvertently caused a brief worldwide outage of the video sharing site.

In Afghanistan, protesters set fire to Dutch flags over the weekend and Islamic clerics called for the withdrawal of Dutch troops.

NATO's Dutch secretary-general, Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, says he too is worried about the "potentially serious consequences" for alliance troops in Afghanistan, where 1,500 Dutch troops serve in the NATO-led force in the volatile south.

"If they are put in the line of fire because of the film, I am concerned," he told Dutch television news show "Buitenhof."

De Hoop Scheffer says people around the world, including some in the U.S. administration, have been asking him about the film.

So far, the reaction among the 850,000 Muslims living in this country of 16 million has been muted, but the Dutch government has warned municipalities to be on alert for rioting if and when the film appears.

This is Danish cartoons déjà vu all over again.

Free speech isn't always pretty.

________________

Read more about "Fitna," from Reuters.

53 comments:

Anonymous said...

What is most sad and strange to me is that the Dutch government has made a statement that basically disavows the film. Government should never be involved one way or another in the artistic expression of its people.

Mary said...

I don't see a problem with the Dutch government condemning the film. That's an opinion. If officials don't like it, they can issue a statement distancing themselves from it.

I do have a problem with any attempts at censoring the film.

Of course, freedom of expression must be exercised responsibly.

Free speech is best answered with more free speech.

Anonymous said...

how can anybody,ignorant to certain things be allowed to criticize them. Free speech is one thing but provocation that could result in lost of lives and wounds that will take many years to heal is just uncalled for. There are many more important issues one should concentrate on such as hunger, oppression and other. I think the time has come to stop using religion as an excuse and concentrate on more important things...

Mary said...

Free speech is not only for the well informed.

The ignorant are also allowed to express themselves.

It's up to the informed to speak out and expose the ignorant.

Anonymous said...

The .com site is down but the English version http://www.fitnathemovie.co.uk is still expected to be released tomorrow.

Anonymous said...

I spent years to become a qualified psychiatrist. (I am from a Muslim background though do not practice Islam).

I can confirm that lots of my patients see visions and hear voices of God like Mohammed did. I analysed the Koran psychoanalytically and dispassionately. Firm conclusions:

Mohammed had both psychosis and a paranoid personality.

The Koran was recorded by Arab poets who gave it a literary refinement.

Mohammed orders killing and raping of those who do not submit to Islam (kill non-believers; women captives of wars are your slaves), though orders peace among Muslims.

The hypocrisy is that he uses high moral percepts of 'fairness' and 'Justice' in order to justify massacres of 'non-believers', attacking caravans, mugging, rampaging and stealing calling what he stole as 'booty' offered by God.

He orders men to beat their wives if they do not submit to them.

The intolerance inherent in the Koran is linked directly to Mohammed's psychosis and his unshakable delusion that his voices and visions meant he was a prophet.

It is a shame that Christians conducted the reformation and renaissance of christianity centuries ago, and even now them, not Muslim scholars, are risking their lives to promote he reformation of Islam. It's time for Muslims to wake up and join the reformation.

The fact that the majority of Muslim are not terrorists does not mean the ideology is safe as, at some point in future, it could be used by thugs and psychopaths to destroy civilization. It is a fascist ideology as what motivated Mohammed deeply is the same as what motivated Hitler and the issues of God, religion or race are all pretexts in the service of power.

Anonymous said...

The joker has shown how far down the slippery slope of dhimmitude we have slipped.
what we need is another 911 ore 2 and if the world does not wake up and combat the disease called isslam then we deserve what we get

http://www.fitnathemovie.co.uk/

Anonymous said...

The choice is Freedom of speech and our 2008 western society..... OR bow down and kiss the feet of racist Islamofascists who believe you have no rights even in your own country.

Mary said...

Censorship and freedom are at odds.

I really think that expressions of free speech are best addressed with more free speech.

Express yourself rather than silence others.

Anonymous said...

I should call myself God - but would you that really help - some how I doubt it.

I can't see what all the fuss is about, oh yes Mohammed, but he never said those things it was his poets who twisted his words and put their own words there - so Mohammed never wrote a single word of the Kuran - get it??? Its amazing what some will do just to get power - They just wanna be me.

Oh Jesus - yeah he was real too, another son of mine just like Mohammed - also got misunderstood, he never wrote a word of the bible - who did?? Oh yes it was those poets again!! They just wanna be gods!!

Silly you know, man invented religion to help build a group and protect that group, to strengthen that group he gave it rules - religion was born, to enforce those rules he gave you God (thats me!!) Unfortunately there were lots of Religions with many different gods and rules. The rules conflicted and led to massacres and wars. Somehow they refused to agree or negotiate with one another - no matter how hard I intervened they were simply stubborn and refused to believe in the same things - their rule makers were the writers of their religions and creaters of their Laws.

Over time thousands of years later many human beings realized what the point of Religion was and moved on with their lives knowing that they no longer needed to believe in it as we found sharing our lives with one another more important and focusing on the development of the human race was imperative as our past ignorance had led to the destruction of our mother earth.

God was a delusional object used to frighten the weakminded into working to protect a religion, it's rules, it's way of life and it's people.
Its 2008 time to wake up and help the planet heal.

Mary said...

So...

Did you have a nice Easter?

Anonymous said...

Visit

http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index.php?name=Sections&req=viewarticle&artid=1&page=1

Anonymous said...

The world needs to see the real islam. It will be the worst plague that this world has ever seen.
Jorawil

Anonymous said...

If you like free speech why do you hate the ACLU? They do more for free speech then anyone else in this country...

Anonymous said...

All religion is false. No proof, just beliefs and as we human develope, we realize he who knows, doesn't need to believe. We are only here for 70-80 years why confused ourselves. And the Islam issues around the world are utterly ridiculous and they should have been hitlers target.

Anonymous said...

What a shame that Islam and its followers refuse to grow up. If the Koran is so sacred, then nothing can hurt it in the first place and it certainly does not need to be defended by those who practice the Muslim faith. In trying to defend the Word of God, they (Muslims) really believes that God needs them and that is alughable.

Unknown said...

I have gone through the whole page of comments and it has put me to thinking. Alhamdullilah, I am a Muslim and Alhamdullilah a practicing one. I seem to understand now a little bit the real problem behind all the comments and the overall opinion about Allah, Prophet Muhammad and Islam. With all my good will extended to my readers (my brothers and sisters) I request you to ask yourself a simple question, "WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT ISLAM AND WHAT IS YOUR SOURCE OF INFORMATION". Muslims practice Islam, that is what their job description is, but is a bad/weak Muslim means bad/weak Islam.
Dear Folks, Allah's last messenger lays a very well defined job description for Muslims from Past, of presents, and for times to come, and that is, spread the message of Almighty Allah. What is the message? Quran is. May Allah Almighty bless you all brothers and sisters with a chance to listen to people who present Islam as a religion not as a doctrine or resource for their own agenda's.
Please read my last word, Neither Allah nor Quran say anything that is going to do any good to them. It is all for us, for people who wish to pursue truth, for those who want to uncover the real purpose of their existence. Be it one movie or a thousand, one comment or a thousand, one book or a thousand, against ALLAH, Prohphet Muhammad (S.A.W) and Quran, it dose not matter to them; but it dose matter to those who know and to those who do not know, THE TRUTH.
I invite you all to research Islam before making an opinion about it. Geert Wilders has made his effort and put forth his opinion about Islam; all is requested is your effort so that you can have your own INFORMED opinion. Islam favors freedom of speech and expression but also add that the person should also take responsibility for what he/she expresses. If I agree with this notion, then I for one will not say anything about anything until I know what I am talking about or I am well informed about it.
May Allah help you all in unfolding the truth.

Anonymous said...

All religions is an instrument for suppresion of the freedom. Islam is a part of them. Just more bloodiest.

Anonymous said...

Is atheism considered a religion ? Maybe I and my fellow atheists should rebel against all religions calling us non believers and heathens. I take offense to that after all. I as an atheist I live for my family and to just plain enjoy life with all it's ups and downs. I feel no need to follow christian missionaries or muslim emissaries across the world to try and reverse their brainwashing. I am happy where I am...or should I be. There are some pretty interesting views here. I agree with most of them...even tho' I am a heathen...Maybe I'm a hippie ? Child of life ? Hmmmm. All this uproar over a film. Peace be with this. Allaschmalla. Akbar this. Gotta go, there's a Jehova witness at my door I have to watch standing there ringing my doorbell until they leave...oh..they brought their kids..thats just unfair...Maybe thats their WMD. Go Geert guy...

Anonymous said...

Dear all, read the history! What the Spanish did in South America? What the the french, British and the Italian did in their colonies for hundred of years? Read how many Indonesian got killed by the Dutch! what about the Germans and their skills! Hitler was Christian, Napoleon too and many of our brave leaders who their hand covered with blood! Don't forget that we attacked their countries and lands for years, wave after wave, by the name of freedom, king, queen, god and even Cross! Come on people, wake and smell the coffee, the winners takes it all, but we can't be always winners and they'll have their days too, so let us respect each other and stop fulling around and abuse the freedom of speech, wake up!

Anonymous said...

A lot of people ask why there are so many contradictory verses in the Koran. Reason: Mohammed was mentally unstable so he said contradictory things at different stages of his life. Somewhere he says 'Kill wherever you see them' [that is the infidels]; somewhere he says 'leave it to God, he will judge them', somewhere else he says 'don't befriend them'.

Mohammed is an insane, paranoid man. His religion spread through war and terror. What we hear about Islamic Art and Civilization such as architecture of mosques, poetry etc. is not from Islam itself but from the humanity and art of the defeated countries attacked by Islamic Barbarians who forced these people into Islam as otherwise these people had to pay a special tax to them.

The Council of Churches and some others have criticized Wilders for not talking about mainstream Islam. This is like saying when someone has cancer don't bother about the cancerous tissue, think of the larger normal body cells! Have you ever heard of a bigger stupidity? You must judge dangerous elements by their virulence not numbers.

The node for destruction of civilization is in the Koran and, if not now, it can be used in future by thugs and psychopaths in the service of a new form of fascism.

In which humane ideology you find instruction for men to beat their wives if they don't submit to them. You find the instruction in the Koran. A cookbook of common sense moral advice mixed with virtually demonic injunction to beat, kill and maim. The mind of Mohammed is a battleground between Santan and God and he is a chimeric incarnation of both. A God with a Satan's Head.

Wilders has served humanity by opening up debate with his film. He doesn't insult anybody. He shows the truth. He does't want hate. His message is very humane.
His words were confirmed by threats of death made to Liveleak.com staff (who had put up the film on their Website) by the same hateful Muslims so the Website has currently had to remove it. You can still watch the film on www.YouTube.Com

Anonymous said...

This is NOT about "freespeech" this IS about Hatespeech: Wilders IS a literal NAZI, too funny seeing that he calls the Koran "facist", he works for an ultra-right-wing, facist NAZI party.

Plain and simple, in Canada he'd be arrested for hatespeech, shame on Wilders, shame on the Dutch.

Anonymous said...

bullocks with islam.
Freedom of Speach IS MY RELIGION.
telling me what i can say, or watch is violating my faith.
jihad on cencorship!

Hilary Cable said...

"Islam favors freedom of speech and expression but also add that the person should also take responsibility for what he/she expresses. "

That's the funniest thing I've read all day. Thanks so much!

Anonymous said...

http://rapidshare.com/files/102873698/GW.F.EN.rar

Anonymous said...

I really try not to comment on Islam itself because most of what I know is slanted from other people's (media) view of it. But what I have consistently seen since long before 9/11 is not a positive reflection of this faith. There seems to be a mob mentally that becomes bloodthirsty....people celebrating in the streets, firing guns, burning things, killing people.

Movies have been made for years that were not very flattering to Evangelicals, Catholics, Jews and many other faiths(some downright offensive). The most I have ever seen in the US are strong media statements, or a peaceful protest outside of theater. But publish a cartoon, write a book or make a movie and worldwide riots break out...what's the deal with that ?

The only conclusion I have is that Islam as a faith is 600 years behind Christianity (and farther behind others). Think about where Christianity was in the 15th century. The inquisition, reformation, RC/Anglican split with violence in the UK...centuries of violence in the name of a Christian God ? I hope it doesn't take another 600 years for Muslims around the globe to realize they are doing a disservice to their cause by not speaking loudly and often against the insane behavior. The silence is deafening. It fuels the prejudice by implicit agreement.

As a Christian I can say TV preachers generally do not speak for me or my beliefs, but I'd be mounting the charge to run them out of town if they were advocating the killing of anyone (which seems to happen often with Muslims) Why must everything become a Holy War? I don't understand why the supposed majority of faithful and tolerant Muslims don't speak out more against this small minority who commit violent acts and taint the world's view of their faith. Which part of "Thou shalt not kill" is hard to understand ?

Flame away

Unknown said...

I just watched the movie and think it need s some comments.
First about the statement which said Islam wants to get the world.
well it does not say that it meant the Saviour... as far as I know Christians, Jews and every religion in the world believe in a Saviour which cleans the world from bad things. Well I think every one in the world who believe in a religion (not alone Islam) waits for the Saviour.
Other think I like to comment is that It is correct that quran says Allah's enemies must be killed. but you guys have any idea who is Allah's enemies?
you Americans? jews? Christians?
Well, me as a Muslim Do not consider the above nations as The Enemies of God. so there is no reason for them to get killed.
Of course that there are some Islamic Extremest which consider the whole world even some of the Muslims as the Enemy of God but this is not absolutely what the Quran said. I think and I feel that we need a complete clarification on Islamic laws and Islamic believes.
because I heard too many problems for Islam in this movie but if it comes to discuss you'll see that it is a benefit for human race rather a problem.

Anonymous said...

It would be difficult to find a more intolerant religion in the world. After all, followers of what other mainstream religion would countenance suicide bombings or the murder of completely innocent civilians?

Islam is the most intolerant religion in the world and many of its followers are still in the Dark Ages when everyone else has moved on.

Mohammed was not a prophet, just a deranged politician. If anyone wants to deny that the Koran implores the murder of Jews and Hindus and it is all a matter of interpretation, you might just bear in mind that this man of violence clearly stated that his words should not be interpreted and were to be taken literally.

In the UK, a succession of incompetent and namby pamby ill-informed governments and liberals have pandered to Islamic extremists and have allowed discontent to fester by permitting segregation instead of encouraging or enforcing integration and we will all reap the whirlwind for that.

In Australia and - please correct me if I'm wrong - also France, Muslims have been reminded that they are guests in a Christian country, that they are welcome to stay but if they don't like it, they can get out and this is the way things should be.

Whether or not Wilder is a fascist, those who feels threatened by what he has to say and who have nothing to say to counter his criticisms will criticise the man because that is all they can do.

As far as I am concerned, we need to take the threats to civilisation and to humanity in general seriously.

Anonymous said...

Ali Sina wrote :

"The movie shows how the Quran provokes hate and inspires terrorism. This explosive movie does not have any comments. It consists solely of the verses of the Quran, the sermons of the Islamic clerics and what Muslims do. If Muslims are offended by it, they should ask themselves why. Do they find the Quran and their own actions embarrassing?".

Disagree??? debate him in this forum : http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum.htm

Anonymous said...

Hi, I am Taufiq from Indonesia, I am just an ordinary people who work in government bank in Bandung West Java, since 6 years old until now, I’ve been learning about Islam and Quran, sometimes I attended sermon from local Islamic cleric in mosque, my campus or my office. As a simple and ordinary young Muslim, I do just like what the other Muslims do, Just like the other young people do in my country, nothing special. I go to my office in the morning, pray to mosque, reading Quran, playing video games, watching movie, have dinner with my wife and my son, hang out with my buddies in Saturday night, shopping etc. As a Muslim, everything I do in my life, I always do Islamic principle and culture, as Quran and Prophet Muhammad teaches us. Islam tells us to protect and honor non Muslim people. Islam teaches us if any Muslim who hurt non Muslim people, we're also similarly hurt our prophet Muhammad. Islam prohibits us to insult non Muslim gods. Quran and Prophet Muhammad teach us to honor, protect and respect to non Muslim. To honor our neighbor and our guest is a must, we have to love our neighbor, orphan and poor people, that Quran tells us. Minimum 2.5% of our wealth is part of poor and hungry people, so we must donate minimum 2.5 % of our wealth to unfortunate people whoever they Muslim or non Muslim. We know jihad not only in order to protect our religion and country, but jihad could be meant as helping poor people, earning money for our wife and son (earning money in a right way, not stealing or corruption), a mother who give a birth is also a jihad and etc. Prophet Muhammad said giving a smile to someone is a part of our donation and faith. Quran and Prophet Muhammad also teach us not to hurt animal. As an example if we were in a forest that there's no men's room in that place :), we're prohibited to urinate an ant nest or a tree. Cleanliness is part of our faith, Quran says. Violence is not Islamic way. A Muslim has to be patient because anger will take us near to Hell's door. Islam says killing innocent people is a biggest sin. Due to Quran, Islam has a principle "Rahmatun lil Alamin" it means Islam spreads mercy to the universe. We want the world to be a peaceful and a better place in our life. Let us live together side by side and bring the peaceful to the human race.

Anonymous said...

Why can't the majority peace loving muslim community band together and defeat the extremists ? Maybe it's the media who inflames us western peoples against islam. I don't think so. The wars being fought are against the followers of the radical clerics and madmen who use islam as an excuse for their own ideologies. If there were more protests and death threats by muslims against the muslim instigators then I for one would be more tolerant to the religion and have hope. There seems to be more bad publicity than good unfortunately. It also is true that it is a very controlling religion and I believe any religion should be like that. Live life your way. Be independent. What is the need to say I am muslim and thus I follow the Quran strictly ? It dictates my daily routine. Be yourself and live your life the way you want to. Religion as a whole is evil. My way is better than yours. You are an infidel. You are a heathen. This filmmaker is just pointing out root causes of problems with the religion. Look at all the bloggng and dialog he has started. Some cleric tho' will ruin it and declare that he should be killed, along with his countrymen and countries interests. (done already most likely)It's just depressing. Bring in normal islamic democracy in these countries and get a modern way of thinking and then these radicals will be overpowered.

Anonymous said...

I urge you to educate yourselves on the history of Islam and begin discussing the real and grave threat that the world faces from this religion, and stop wasting your time arguing about free speech. If you do not, I can assure you in ten years when you are living under Shiaria (Islamic Law) free speech will be long forgotten concept.

To Muslims the world is simple, there are only two divisions. On one side is the area where the Islamic state reigns and Sharia (law) of Allah is practiced. They call this place “dar el Islam” (House of Islam). The other side (where you currently reside), is referred by them as “dar el Harb” (house of War). They refer to non Muslims living in dar el Harb as “Kuffar”, translated in our language as Infidels, although the true translation is Aggressors against the right path, who have not yet converted to the true religion of God (Take a wild guess as to which one that is).

Islam does not recognize countries (States) like you do today. They may live in your country but their true allegiance is not to your laws but to their religion. To Muslims the state is their religion. Quote from the founders of Islam “Al islam deen wa dawla” –translation- “Islam is a religion and a state”. Let’s not forget that until 1922 (After the end of the WWI for the historically challenged) the Middle East had been under the control of the Caliphate (Supreme Institution of Islamic State). The Caliphate was controlled by the Nabiy (Prophet), who according to Islam has the power to manage as he desires the “dawlat al umma” (the state of the Muslim nation).

It is the duty of every Muslim to promote, propagate, and conquer for Islam (if they fallow the true teachings of the prophet). A word was created in the Arabic language for this duty and you know it today as “Jihad”. The true meaning of this word is not “Holly War” as we westerners believe. Jihad to Islamist means “a state effort at the service of the Umma, the state and Allah. In Islamic law Jihad must be declared by the Caliphate (Supreme Institution of the Islamic State) and not any individual Muslims. The Caliphate used Jihad for 13 centuries to fight against the west.

Today, because the fall of the Ottoman Empire in 1922, an unified Islamic State does not exist and therefore no credible institution exist who if they called for Jihad all Muslims would have to obey. This does not mean that this power will never be re-born, many of what you think of as States (Saudi Arabia, Iran…) are attempting to unify the Middle East and revive the Caliphate. When this happens they will have the power to call for war against the West and all Muslims will have to obey (if they are good Muslims that is). How many Muslims where you live? If you doubt any of what I have told you, please feel free to look it up yourself.

I propose we stop arguing about irrelevant issues and begin focusing on attempting to stop the global collapse that inevitably is creeping our way. End the political correctness and begin discussing the facts irrespective of who it hurts. Do this now because if you don’t you might not have the chance in the future.

What is more likely?

1) Bush is in Iraq because of oil. He is a liar who got 4 thousand soldiers killed along with innocent civilians.
2) The man leading the greatest power in history, advised by the brightest minds in academia, understands the realities of the world much better than most of us and is making decisions based on what he believes is best for the future of his and your children, without regard to how unpopular these decisions might make him


Maybe I am reading history and world events incorrectly. I certainly hope that I am.

Concerned World Citizen

Anonymous said...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8105709395775858867

Anonymous said...

THIS IS EUROPE!!!!

The muslims don't rule in here.

This is Europe, we have DEMOCRACY and FREEDOM.

If you don't like it like this, go back to your 3rd world muslim coutries!

Gloriam Europa!

I'm Portuguese, and I love all my fellow European citizens, from Iceland to non-occupied Cyprus, and from Madeira to Finland. I even love the Spanish. :-P

This is EUROPE! Respect OUR laws!

Anonymous said...

THE FILM HAS NOTHING BUT HATE!

IT REFLECTS THE HATERD IN THOSE WHO ASSEMBLED THESE BLOODY PICTURES!

• THE PICTURES ARE ALL OF THOSE OF DESPERATE REACTIONS OF SOME DESPERATE INDIVIDUALS LIKE AL-QAEDAH.

• THE VERSES MENTIONED ARE THOSE RELATED TO THE HISTORICAL PERIOD WHEN THE NON-BELIEVERS IN MAKKAH WERE KILLING AND OPPRESSING THE MUSLIMS AND THEN THE MUSLIMS WERE ALLOWED TO FIGHT BACK AFTER LONG SUFFERING.

• THE TALKS PRESENTED ARE THOSE OF SOME FANATICALS WHO ARE NONT POPULAR.

• MODERATE VOICES WERE NOT PRESENTED!

>>>>> SO WHAT IS THE DEAL!!!<<<<<

Anonymous said...

Guys,
I beleive in the christ, prophet muhammed, Moses and Abraham. All of them coming from GOD to us to show us the right path and their messages are not contradicting at all. THEY COMPLETE EACH OTHER

Am a muslim and I can say that the only core difference between us and U the christians is that we say the CHRIST is a prophet and not the SON...Nothing more.

Be him the son or not, we will know on the doomsday who's right and who's not.

I don't insult the christ (PBUH)because I holly and respect him as I respect prophet Muhammed (PBUH). andI don't insult any other holly or religious character because RELIGION IS INTERPRETATION OF FREEDOM. LET'S not induce this racial hatred...IT'S all politics so keep religion away...

IF any of u is interested in comparing religions or really wants to know who's prophet muhammed and who're muslims..let's get to talk with no offence to any religion.

Peace be with you all (btw,it's the islam's greeting). because peace is what all prophets came for.

Anonymous said...

"Freedom of speech" i believe these words are nowadays used as an excuse to just offend people. let just say if someone expressed their freedom of speech and said that the HOLOCAUST didn't exist,
what i would like to know is how some people would react to that,, however then again we do live in the 21st century and we are ''all for freedom of speech''

Anonymous said...

Hey all,

LET's have a great deal indeed. AND U'RE ALL INVITED.

IF u want to say the Koran is contradicting itself say it, but bring an evidence from the koran with its explanation from the muslim books which explain the koran's verses.

If u want to say the quran asks for killing women and children bring an evidence from the koran with the explanation from their books.

If u say there's no democracy in Islam bring an evidence from the koran.

It's a perfect way to have a critisism supported by evidence, or else ur IGNORANCE will be very clear.

IF u don't have an explanation of the koran post me back and i'll send u the explanation in ur language.

BTW, the right word is QURAN and not koran

Anonymous said...

first i am a moslim and am proud to be one .
people you have no idea what's islam , some1 declared our holly book orderd us to kill.
our book is divided to portions and units - the least called "aya"
and it's the least you can read , any aya must be read to it's end ----> our book orderd us to fight any one who fight us , other word to defend our country - you do cosider this as a heroic act in your countries i suppose .
you can't say you analayzed our book without considering the main bases of studying it .
and you said our book orderd us to own slavery from wars , so you even lies or you was reading a silly comic book instead .
why our religion spread all over africa and asia (the main sources for slave trade)?
i didn't thought it needs you to think about it ,it was because our religion freed them and eradicated any source of slavery .
please people don't attack us before knowing who we really are

Anonymous said...

Hey all
I'm not so good in discussions or such things that needs a lot of writings, but when it comes to RELIGIONS no1 can stay silent.

You are now criticising something you don't know about or don't have the knowledge that it takes to talk, each one of you is saying what he thinks that its right, offending OUR RELIGION and call it free speech.

Some of you believe in GOD and all of his prophets, others don't but we MUSLIMS always do.. there is no Muslim can oppose the principle that all prophets come from GOD to lead us for the right path,

We believe in Christ, if u don't believe in Mohammed as messenger then don't offend him.. and just believe that our QURAN doesn't lead to terrorism or killing people.

To answer those people who say that we must change some of the Quran verses, they must know that its a HOLLY BOOK and it comes from GOD (ALLAH), so we can't just change it because it doesn't fit your way of thinking or to satisfy Geert Wilders.

So as a favor those people who doesn't know any little thing about ISLAM don't bother us with their fool ideas.

And at last i just want to say that I'M PROUD TO BE MUSLIM and proud to say it.

Anonymous said...

look people. freedom of speech is freedom of speech. nations wher built on the premise of religion. i want to point something out in saying this... iraq/iran not quite 2nd world countries yet... america/europe/australia all 1st world countries.. you can say hateful things, or you can spout truth.. religion is here for the betterment of all people, but first and foremost in every single persons eyes should be their family. if you are raising a son that likes to blow things up, you probably did a crappy job, and no im not just talking about muslims. may i also point out everyones freaking out about terrorists, but oklahoma city and the olympics were terrorists, and they were not muslim (at least not to my knowledge.. if they were, well, thats freaky :P) getting angry does not solve problems. being a push over country does not solve problems. one thing that is clear is that there is a division in what people think they know and what is the truth of a religion.. CHRISTIANITY had this SAME problem... then we got the printing press and learned to read.. problem solved. christianity teaches wars and peace just like muslims.. though christians believe that Christ's words supercede that of the old testament. i have been in iraq as a soldier, and i can honestly say that not every muslim in the world wanted me dead. i actually made a couple of pretty good friends. i hope you enjoyed reading my rant, and my voice and freedom of speech

P.S. why are people so ready to post their beliefs, but not put a name to them? if your gonna say something, at least own up to it......

Anonymous said...

fitna video can be downloaded at
http://www.driveway.com/o1t7r5v8k3

salihin.yantzimpiana said...

we are now currently boycott all the dutch product...BOYCOTT all DUTCH product...That is our right..no need to do demonstration anymore...be rasional..this campaign has been spread all Muslim country...that is because you make such a provocative film

Mary said...

What do you mean "no religion allowed"?

Do you mean your household is a religion-free zone?

Anonymous said...

Yup...

Mary said...

Of course, that's your right.

It's great to live free.

salihin.yantzimpiana said...

"freedom of speech"..as u said..ok lets give a simple example... what about if i said you are crazy, and then my friend said you are crazy, and other alliances also said you are crazy but the truth said you are not crazy and your family and yourself know that you are not crazy. So, who will you blame? yourself? of course not..you will blame them and can you just keep saying ..ok never mind that is their right to have freedom of speech...of course not..so, Think...find the truth ..not just listen and make a lot of assumptions..

Anonymous said...

i supported the campaign...it has been spread to my country also...with freedom of speech... i ask all Muslims (1.3 billion) support the campaign now..BOYCOTT all DUCTH product...BOYCOTT... its a simple solution but difficult for them...thank you...let have freedom of speech...BOYCOTT DUTCH product...

Anonymous said...

o yeah..cool..i think the campaign is cool...good campaign to boycott the dutch product.. i ll spread to my friends thru e-mail.... i got few code and dutch brand..i ll spread it..let the campaign success...cOOl..

Anonymous said...

Support the boycot campaign. count me in. i ll not buy their product anymore. thank God finally there is such a good campaign rather than just doing demonstration

Winfred Mann said...

I have seen Fitna. It shows how Islamists use the Qur'an to motivate followers to commit heinous acts. I had it posted on my site until the movie was deleted at liveleak.

"Should this film be shown?" is not the question we should be asking. The correct question is, "Why is Islam so afraid of scrutiny? Muslims have no problem questioning other religions. In fact. that's what Mohamed did; he questioned Christianity.

Another relevant question is, "Why does the Qur'an begin with, "DO NOT DARE QUESTION THIS BOOK,"?

Another relevant question is, "Why are Muslims so intolerant of everything non-Muslim?"

Anonymous said...

the asia people think dis movie is just a hate and provocatve film...europe always want to messy with others matter...go n solve yr own problem lah...such n imperialist thinker

Daniel Rio Tinto said...

It's for all of that intolerance - from both sides - that make it so difficult to deal with West X Muslim differences.

If there weren't no extremists in both sides, everything would be fine.

When one muslim says that jihad is nice he's so bad as the neocon/nazi that says that killing muslims for "war on terror" is cool.

Try to think of living togheter, accepting each other and specially, respecting each other.

No culture is better than other culture.